PHOTOS BY CHRISTOPHER SCALZI / DISTILLED STUDIO
Move over, Ann Reinking … rockin those fishnets
Cut arms. And style baby …
HAIR: LIZ LOVES HAIR / MU: ANGIE PARKER BEAUTY
Did we mention she was an acrobat? For the Big Apple? Answering texts from kids on shoot … in this position … I mean …
GLORIOUS PROFESSION: Author, Activist, Mother
GLORIOUS PERSONA: Font of Wisdom and Guts — with Oodles of Style
GLORIOUS QUALITIES: Reflective, Tough, Soft, Tenacious
GLORIOUS PHILOSOPHY:
“In a time of destruction. Build something. Mother something — until it is whole.”
Kindred. That’s how I felt about Jodie Patterson, my ardor growing with every click on her Insta. Our outsides may not match — I’m a white lady 20 years her senior after all — but our sensibilities are bestie soulmates: We share the outlook that family is so much more than “blood.” We share deep lovmiration for her mentor and my queen, Bethann Hardison. We both worship Tilda Swinton. By the time I put together that Jodie’s uncle is Gil Scott Heron… who SHAPED my existence in art school having a mini-hippie moment with The Revolution Will Not Be Televised … that did it. I had to meet this Glorious Broad. And Jodie does not disappoint. When you pitch an activist to photograph her Bob Fosse style — and she runs with it? That’s smokin’ — and my kind of hot mama! Jodie was an entrepreneur who thrived in beauty, entertainment and fashion only to have her whole world shift when her child Penelope said, at the age of three, THREE — he was not a girl. He was a boy. Jodie documents this journey in her own book, The Bold World and continues to advocate for LGBTQIA rights as chair of the Human Rights Campaign. So get your wisdom cups ready, Jodie Patterson is a font of excellent ideas …
SO, I’VE BEEN DEEP IN YOUR IG FOR A WHILE — AND I PICKED A COUPLE OF YOUR QUOTES THAT SHOW THE MANY SIDES OF JODIE. YOU’RE SO DAMN QUOTABLE:
“Cut arms are my entire freakin attitude”
“The best conversations are the ones about the thing you just can’t get out of your head”
“Untethering is not something women are taught”
“Take selfies and send them to yourself”
“I have that feeling when we walk into a room as a queer black family, I used to think — it’s hard to live this life. And now, it’s so great. Nobody knows what we know as a queer family”
ALL OF THAT IS YOU, JODIE …
You’re absolutely right — Kudos!
That whole idea of “take selfies of yourself and send them back to you” — If you go back and look at your journals or look in a mirror — and you take a selfie and send it to yourself — you are reminded of you. We see celebrities all the time. But — what about gazing at yourself?
I LOVE THAT IDEA. OR EVEN, WHEN I FIND A JOURNAL FROM A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO I THINK — OH — THIS IS BEAUTIFULLY WRITTEN — OR SOMETIMES NOT. (WE LAUGH)
DID YOU DREAM WHEN YOU WERE A TEEN THAT YOU’D BE THE GLORIOUS BROAD THAT YOU ARE TODAY?
From as young as I can remember — like 6-years-old — I really wanted to be three things: A mother. A teacher. And a businesswoman.
BUT IN A SHARP SUIT.
A Donna Karan suit — with big shoulders! (laughs.) I just knew I wanted to be important.
YOU’VE COME FROM A FAMILY OF LEADERS. YOUR DAD STARTED THE FIRST BLACK BROKERAGE FIRM ON WALL STREET, AND I AM GOING TO MENTION GIL SCOT-HERON AGAIN. DID YOU FEEL DESTINED TO BE ONE?
(Sighs) That’s heavy. But yeah. There is an entrepreneurial drive in my family. An activist drive. My uncle Gil Scott Heron was building ideas: The revolution will not be televised. It will happen live and direct.
MY HERO … AND A REAL POET
Yes. My career started as a junior book editor. I was thinking about my family and watching other people — like Russell Simmons and my soon to be husband — they were all entrepreneurs. And I thought: God I want to do more than just sit at this desk. The default in my family was being a changemaker.
WELL, YOU ARE THAT…
Beauty With a Capital “B”
BUT SPEAKING OF CHANGE, TELL US HOW YOU NAVIGATED STARTING A BEAUTY COMPANY IN A WORLD SO DANGEROUS FOR AGING WOMEN. HOW DID YOU SHIFT FROM BEAUTY TO ACTIVISM? THAT’S HUGE.
About 10 years ago I decided to open an online company, Doobop — all about inner and outer beauty for women with textured hair and brown skin.
I do not shop on the bottom shelf for my beauty products. At that time, the ethnic isles were dusty — sad — and super bottom shelf. Not updated since the ‘60s.
So we updated. We went past ethnic boundaries — and picked products based on the ingredients best for women of color.
We addressed both how women feel — and her access to self-care. Beauty can be superficial but the way I approached it was outside and inside.
“I was in the beauty industry — and raising a trans kid — thinking — these two worlds might contradict. How can I be in this industry and be proud?”
WELL, SELFCARE IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM ANTI-AGING. IT’S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW.
Right? And we are so hyper-focused on youth. What I started to feel — being in the beauty industry and raising a trans kid — these two worlds don’t go together. The beauty industry says: There is one form of beauty. One look. And at home I was asking my kids to be brave and present however they felt most true to themselves.
So maybe Beauty is with a capital B — from the inside out. I am wearing an afro today because I am challenging my boys’ curly hair — we’re having an afro contest. (laughs)
And?? Who’s winning??
We don’t know yet — it’s who can get the biggest afro by Easter. Hair can be so political and emotional. In my home, it’s just love. And that’s my approach to Beauty.
YOU ARE NOT SEEING ME AT MY BEST TODAY — BUT I CAN GET DONE. I ENJOY THAT. AND IT’S MOSTLY MY YOUNGER FRIENDS FREAKING OUT AS THEY TURN 40. I AM 70. YOU KNOW WHAT? THIS ROCKS.
It does?
IT DOES. MOST DAYS. (LAUGHS) BUT I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR TURNING 50 – LOOKING AND FEELING GOOD AND HEALTHY. YOU MAY ALREADY KNOW THIS — BUT WITH EACH YEAR YOU HAVE TO PUT MORE AND MORE TIME INTO SELF-CARE …
(Laughs) Completely! I used to spend maybe 30 minutes at the max in the bathroom, and then anything else is wasting your day. And now I am like: Oh I need more time — more time to slowly get out of bed. More bathroom time. If I rush through those practices I really need — I feel and I look it the whole day.
I FOLLOW A WOMAN NAMED YAMUNA. AND I BREATHE WITH HER EACH MORNING. AND THAT TAKES A HALF HOUR OUT OF MY DAY. BUT I NO LONGER THINK OF IT THAT WAY. INSTEAD, IT MAKES MY DAY. BUT THAT SHIFT TOOK TIME.
SO SPEAKING OF AGE AND BEAUTY — HOW DID YOU FEEL ABOUT TURNING 50?
I always wanted to be older. So when I was 49 I was saying 50. This year I think I was saying 52, and my friends were saying no, you are only 51. 50 was so “hot damn.” And 51 was “oh fuck.” (laughs)
YOU KNOW I HAVE TO ASK WHY …
It’s been hard for me to embrace loss. Like hair. Muscle tone. Intellectually I can accept my body. But — I don’t like loss.
JUST WAIT … (WE LAUGH)
WELL, YOU INSPIRED ME THE OTHER DAY WOMAN. I’VE BEEN WALKING REALLY FAST LATELY — BUT IT’S AFFECTING MY HIP. IT WAS ONE OF THOSE NASTY COLD DAYS AND THERE YOU WERE IN YOUR COOL LOOKING JOG SUIT AFTER A RUN. SO I NEED TO DO MORE. BUT… I NEED TO WALK SLOWER.
Exactly. Cause I am not sure that more means faster. But. I give more thought to my exercise now. And I think the urgency as we get older is not in speed. But in depth.
YES. I AGREE. BUT HEY — I DO SLIP UP …
I have added breathing exercises like you. And the slower yoga moves. I actually notice if I missed those days — it changes my face and my butt (we laugh)
WHAT KIND OF YOGA? TO BE AS FLEXIBLE AS YOU. I JUST PHOTOGRAPHED YOU AND …. WOE
My exercise changes. For many years I was running every day, then stretching and doing body weights. An hour about 4 times a week. And now I am doing 5 to 7 days of yoga, breathing, body weights, stretching …. like two hours of that. So yes. More each decade.
Love With (Lotsa) Possibilities
WOW. AS I MENTIONED, I LOVE YOUR INSTA — SO TRANSPARENT. AND FUN. AND SERIOUS.
AND I SEE YOU ALWAYS HAVE A LOVE LIFE GOING. I HAVE NO PATIENCE WHEN PEOPLE SAY THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIND LOVERS — THEY’RE OUT THERE!
Totally. Thanks for noticing. I spend a lot of time and energy on the things that I care about. Including my love life and sex life. When I started to become part of the LGBT community, it shocked me that I hadn’t previously considered millions of people in my options.
“I spend a lot of time and energy on the things that I care about. Including my love life and sex life. ”
OHHHHH. YOU MEAN AS A STRAIGHT WOMAN?
Yeah. I never even thought outside of a cis gender perspective.
SO HOW HAS DATING CHANGED FOR YOU?
Well, now I am open to all identities. I find myself looking more for values — more for the core of the person.
A NEW LIFE …
When you widen your view you start to find connections in so many ways.
YES. AND I THINK THAT DOES HAPPEN AROUND 50. FOR ME, WHEN MY EX AND I BROKE UP — THERE WAS A WOMAN I HAD A CRUSH ON THAT I SHIED AWAY FROM. AND I FINALLY MADE THE PITCH. WE HAD A FIERY LOVE LIFE FOR ABOUT A YEAR. I NEVER CONSIDERED MYSELF BISEXUAL OR QUEER. I JUST I LET IT IN …
I can totally relate to that. The language can feel too specific, too limiting for me. My friends asked: Wait, are you gay now Jodie? First of all, they didn't understand that trans is not a sexual preference. It's an identity. And trans has nothing to do with me being straight or gay. But the point that they're asking was: Are you different now?
SO WERE YOU?
(Laughs) I was thinking: I am me. And this piece of me has been activated.
WHO’D HAVE THUNK IT.
Mother Builder
SO HAS YOUR VIEW OF MOTHERHOOD CHANGED AS YOU'VE GROWN OLDER?
Yes, definitely. When you’re a mother of young children, much of your time is in the minutiae. In the last several years, I started rethinking mothering — because this phase is different.
It’s less soothing and coddling — more building.
You can build a child, a community, a boardroom, an idea. This has nothing to do with birthing. You don't have to own a vagina. You just have to want to build someone up.
SO, WHAT IS FAMILY TO YOU? I MEAN, I'M A PEDRO ALMODOVAR FAN. BUT IS FAMILY A COMBINATION BLOOD AND CHOSEN?
I think those who dwell together in physicality or in a mental space, is family. Period.
I LOVE THAT.
Chosen family is just as strong as blood family.
DOUBLE PERIOD.
I have a work husband on the board with me at the Human Rights Campaign, and that relationship is family. He's a gay white man, living in Texas. I'm a straight black woman living in New York. When we're talking about diversity or racism, we speak together. We love each other. And so that's family. We've never lived in the same house, but we dwell together.
WHAT DOES AMBITION MEAN TO YOU NOW? THE SAME THING AS 30 YEARS AGO?
I don't know if I use that word anymore. I was ambitious in my 20’s and 30’s. There was a longing for … something. Career, but also romantically. Even in my late 30’s and 40’s. I wanted to be bigger in this world. Know more.
WHAT CHANGED?
Today I have goals. Projects. A lot of dedication to work and family, but I don't have ambitions. It doesn't mean I don't have passion. It means I don't crave something I don't have right now.
“You can build a child, a community, a boardroom, an idea. This has nothing to do with birthing. You don’t have to own a vagina. ”
AND YOU SEEM TO BE A — I'M CAREFUL WITH THIS WORD SPIRITUAL — BUT YOU SEEM TO BE VERY CENTERED.
Oh I can put myself into a tizzy! In the past: I’d spin with my drive. I used to run for hours, and at the end of the block, I’d envision my book cover, the next block — I would run towards the completion of my book and then the next block it would be a review. In the NY Times. (laughs)
THAT SPECIFIC …
I don't have that in me anymore. As I get older I feel accomplished and loved. The five children, the two husbands, the books and the experiences have made me understand that things come to you in life.
BUT YOU STILL HAVE A LOT GOING ON …
Yes but. If I were to work on this book proposal for another two years, I would be okay with that. Three, five years ago, I wanted it now. And I’m gonna strive. I'm going to do it and every day I'm going to run two hours and work five hours. And accomplish these goals no matter what it took.
YEAH, THAT’S A BIG SHIFT.
If this 50-year-old continued at that speed, I'd be burnt out. Or worse.
BUT I SEE THERE'S A LOT OF SELF-CARE IN YOUR DAY.
Now there is. A lot of quiet time. And a lot of the work is invisible work. Reading in my bed is the pre-writing of my own book. Running or doing yoga and meditation is the pre-writing. That invisible labor is what I really rely on.
This or That? The Other, Thanks
YOU SAID THAT WHEN PENELOPE TOLD YOU AT THREE-YEARS-OLD THAT HE'S A BOY, THAT WAS THE MOST RADICAL SHIFT IN YOUR LIFE …
So when he told me “I am a boy, Mama.” Yeah, it was the most radical. I mean, I can't think of another moment. When you have a child that you think is one gender and they tell you I'm entirely another gender. Simply put — it rocked my world.
YOU FELT CONFUSED?
Yes! How could this child be a boy? I convinced myself I had failed to raise a feminist. Maybe if I’d just tell him more about Shirley Chisholm …
SHIRLEY’S PRETTY CONVINCING …
In fact, those things made him depressed. He said: Mama. I love you but I don’t want to be you. I like the story of Shirley C. But I don’t want to be her.
DEEP.
So it was radical — the shift was my thinking. The way we have divided the world into male and female. It's much more layered and contextual. And so it affected the way I looked at children, but also at myself and concepts, language, everything. I no longer think of anything as one of two choices.
NOW ALL POSSIBILITIES ….
Which one are you? This or that. What do you want? This or that. And now for me it is endless options. (laughs)
I GREW UP IN BROOKLYN. BUT MY MID YEARS WERE IN JOISEY. THAT'S WHERE GIL SCOTT HERON WAS SO IMPORTANT TO ME — I COULDN’T WAIT TO GET TO THE PLACE WHERE THIS GUY LIVES! HE FUELED MY NEWARK ART SCHOOL DAYS.
Wow that is funny.
HE WAS SUCH A PART OF MY YOUTH SO I FLIPPED OUT WHEN I WHEN I SAW THIS CONNECTION BETWEEN US.
I just knew Uncle Gil was different. I really didn’t know the magnitude of his genius. I was a kid. His whole mannerism was different than the other adults in my family. The way he dressed and spoke. He was a smoker. He was a cool cat. And my mom's a pretty conservative Southern lady. But we're all at the table together. He is respected. He is welcome. And no one is flinching.
AH, FANTASTIC.
And that's kind of how my family is. I have a kid who's conservative. Who doesn't think abortion should be legal.
REALLY?
I have a kid who does not think transgender is scientifically proven. I have another kid who is trans, I have a feminist. I have an athlete. I have brainy types. And we’re all at the dinner table. I think that's from my family.
AND DEBATE IS ENCOURAGED — NO SCREAMING ALLOWED?
The hardest part. (laughs.) No screaming. And you gotta let people finish their statement.
“Which one are you. This or that. What do you want? This or that. And now for me — it is endless options. ”
WE HAVE ONE MEMBER OF OUR FAMILY WHO HAS CYSTIC FIBROSIS. AND HE HAD BEEN THE OBJECT OF SO MUCH OF HIS PARENTS’ ATTENTION GROWING UP. THERE WAS ANGER AND ENVY WITH THE OTHER SIBLINGS. DID YOU DEAL WITH THAT WITH PENELOPE AND HIS SIBLINGS?
Oh yes. Oh, by the way, Penelope is now 14 and has just asked to change his name to be Penel. It got too complicated in high school to have a name that draws so much attention.
MAKES SENSE.
For sure I got backlash. In the beginning when I was hyper focused on protecting Penel from the really obvious transphobia, I’d be taking him to class, basketball, everything so that I could see that people were supportive. I have finite time and energy. So I was not able to put that same intensity into the other children. I was thinking about LGBT rights. I got laser focused.
YES. AND SCIENCE AND MANGA MAY NOT BE THREATENING TO THEIR LIVES …
And so that pissed my boy who's now 16. You can’t avoid that.
NO, I DON’T THINK YOU CAN.
He said to me: “Mama all you know is transgender.” That was maybe seven years ago — and that hurt.
I said I was really sorry. I frickin’ just haven't spent enough time with you. You want to go to a Science Festival? You want to read a Manga book together?
It's taken years to build the time back when I wasn't always there … but we’re working on it.
WOULD YOU SAY THAT PENEL IS GOING TO HAVE A MORE COMPLICATED JOURNEY BECAUSE HE IS BLACK AND TRANS?
For sure. Being different is complicated. And black trans is a double whammy.
SO. HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THAT?
Penel's put himself in places that respect him, that don't question him. Around people who are black and trans and so, in our neighborhood — in our proverbial neighborhood — it’s not a problem.
FANTASTIC THAT THIS NEIGHBORHOOD EXISTS. BROOKLYN!
For the young teens that he's around — it's like no big deal. He keeps saying “Mom, are you adults still talking about this?”
I LOVE THE NEW WORLD THAT'S COMING OUR WAY. SO MUCH HOPE.
Yeah. There really is. And I said to him: “Do your friends at school know that you're trans?” He's like: “All they have to do is Google me. Why would I tell them the obvious like, we're not reading our bios to each other in ninth grade.” (we laugh.)
WHAT DO YOU WANT IN YOUR NEXT DECADES — AT 60, 70, 80…? DO YOU THINK ABOUT IT?
I’m quite aware that 60 is coming quickly. I have many thoughts that I want to share in book form, in film form. I think I see myself not living in this city — and every day being able to stretch my eyeballs out on the horizon, gazing off. I see myself in warm weather by the sea. Traveling to see my children who might live all over the world.
And I see myself in love.
I SEE THE FINITENESS, AND IT DOESN'T SCARE ME. IT'S JUST MAKING USE OF THIS TIME.
You know, I've never been nervous to age. I don't want to become more scared. Feeling less afraid, you know, it's a practice you have to cultivate.
CAN YOU GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING YOU HAD TO LEARN THE HARD WAY?
Oh. Humility with my kids.
That was a hard one. I have always loved and adored them. But essentially, I never thought of the concept of earning their love or being humble. And I’ve been reading bell hooks. And …
I JUST GOT “ALL ABOUT LOVE”
Read it. In bite sized pieces. She says all relationships need humility.
Burnout Is Real
AND HOW ABOUT FOR YOURSELF?
You cannot go all out for years and years on your body and not suffer consequences. I was living on adrenaline. I got three hours sleep when I was starting a company the day after I'd given birth — back to work two weeks after a birth.
SO YOU LISTENED.
My doctor said, you need a Plan B: An exit strategy. Because where your levels are, you won't even make it for another five years.
Now that was an eye opener — that my body is actually finite. And I've done so much stress to it. It’s not something you can reverse necessarily. Now – with a new awareness — I am maintaining a calmness, because I know where it can go. That was learning the hard way.
I RELATE. MY BRAIN NEARLY OUTED ME A FEW YEARS AGO FROM TOO MUCH STRESS. I CHANGED IT ALL UP.
See what we can do? The gut punch was when my high blood pressure reached stroke level. The body was saying: You might have great skin but you gotta calm down woman.
SO YOU’VE STOOD UP FOR RACIAL EQUITY, FEMINISM, LGBT RIGHTS — WHAT’S YOUR FEELING ABOUT AGEISM AS AN ACTIVIST?
In my day-to-day life, ageism comes up — but it’s about how adults de-prioritize kids.
VERY INTERESTING.
Ageism is something that I speak of a lot in my home. Because of course, as the adult, you're the dominant culture.
THAT’S THE TRUTH. WE KIND OF RULE.
Ageism is interesting, because in my community, the way I grew up — the black community, feminist black community, I never really heard folks talk so much about ageism. Racism and sexism have been the larger conversation.
I UNDERSTAND.
In my Black community, as we got older, we were given more respect. There's the matriarch and patriarch of the black community.
I'm writing this TV adaptation of my book, The Bold World book. When I’m talking to producers, they need me as age 40, not 50. And Penel was three when he said: I am a boy, but they wanted him to be six. So I’m seeing ageism more and more.
WHO WOULD YOU SAY SHAPED YOU THE MOST IN YOUR LIFE? WHO MADE JODIE???
There is not one person. But a wall of women — and I have a collage that travels with me in every house I have had. I see myself — this one body — as those 40 women. And some of them are in their 80s — like Bethann Hardison. Some I know. Some I’ve just read about — and some of them are dead. Like my great grandmother.
SO I AM CURIOUS ABOUT BETHANN. WHAT DOES SHE BRING YOU?
You know, some people think — because of her age — she's going to be quiet and they start to whisper … like she’s a yogi or something. You are 50. She is 80. What do you talk about? Whaaa? Oh no. she's a sharpshooter. She's witty as fuck. We don’t just do dinners? We do tequila!
I KNOW. RIGHT? ONE OF MY BEST FRIENDS NOW IS 83. AND IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS WE BECAME BESTIES — THROUGH GB —AND SHE'S A FABULOUS FASHIONISTA UP FOR ANYTHING. SHE GIVES ME INSIGHTS FOR KICKIN ASS THAT LONG! (LAUGHS)
CAN YOU GIVE ME A ONE LINE ANSWER TO A COUPLE OF WORDS I'M GOING TO THROW AT YOU:
BEAUTY
Comes from emotion.
SEX
(Laughs) It is one of the things that makes my skin glow
EQUALITY
Equity and equality. This term that has been so loaded. And it gets tossed around in boardrooms.
YES. DIVERSITY TOO.
And the subject matter of diversity inclusion and equity gets all convoluted. Equity vs equality.
But what I can tell you is … it looks like my dinner table.
BEAUTIFUL.
YOU ARE SUCH AN INCREDIBLE GLORIOUS BROAD. WHAT DOES GLORIOUS MEAN TO YOU?
Oh — Glorious. My grandmother's name is Gloria. I love the word glory. And the word Glorious. It has this bigness and roundness to it. It makes me smile. It makes me think of family and women. And it makes me think of glow. Sunshine. All of the things that I want in my life.
You know — be a glowing dominant women.
FABULOUS JODIE.
Have you somehow made it to the end of this interview without following Jodie's Insta? Remedy that at @jodiepatterson. Check out her memoir The Bold World and her children’s book: Born Ready: The True Story of a Boy Named Penelope, which just won 3 awards, by the by …