3 Activists, from 66 to 99, weigh in — and act out — on BLM
Elizabeth White — front and center
Photo: David Sampy
Sure, Glenn Beck is an ass. Even so, my jaw dropped when he said, “I would rather have my children stay home and have all of us who are over 50 go in and keep this economy going and working, Even if we all get sick, I’d rather die than kill the country.” As a friend said at the time: “You first, Glenn.” Alas, it ain’t just Fox-types. Last month Forbes gave a “whew” that the elderly death toll was much higher than for the “working age” populace. Uh huh. And who are we talking about here? Who are these “elderlies?” We are all one big dis-empowered group of fragile old farts. It’s how all the “isms” work — lump ’em all together.
So. It’s official. We’re invisible? As if. For starters, we’re running the country (although I do not want us to take credit for that shit show.) But what about, in contrast, Mary Jo Laupp, the #TikTok Grandma whose impact on Trump’s first Oklahoma conference caused utter and delicious chaos — empty arena much?
This piece pulled its own switcharoo — chatting with Glorious pal, Héctor Lionel, we wanted initially to do a pictorial of the 60+ crowd who had to skip the demonstrations for health reasons. What I found: vital, involved, fascinating political creatures bringing their own history, lessons and know-how to the movement. They needed to be heard — and seen.
ELIZABETH WHITE, 66
Elizabeth’s sophisticated mind is a delicious combination of scrappy, wise, confident, worldly. She’s a member of my Glorious Broads clan. I fell in insta-love with her in-your-faceness at The Atlantic’s New Old Age conference. We keep up via A Tribe Called Ageing — her online think-tank she co-hosts that remains my mid-week highlight. A Zoom that doesn’t suck? She’s that good. Also a published author and TEDTalk star, Ebeth covers aging and financial insecurity. Plenty to talk about these days, obvs.
Elizabeth has been out demonstrating — not leading chants but, like so many of us, exploring options for what’s next. Wondering about what you can do to further Black Lives Matter? Leave it to Elizabeth to show us the bricks …
WERE YOU AN ACTIVIST IN THE 60s?I think I was more of a good girl. You know, do my work, get a job, be responsible. I was that person.
AND NOW YOU HAVE BLOSSOMED INTO A BADASS RABBLE-ROUSER… I guess I have. (laughs)
TELL ME ABOUT YOU IN THE ‘60s…I was coming back to the states at 16 after being abroad for a long time — entering the middle of “I’m Black and I’m proud.”
WERE YOU DISAPPOINTED WHEN YOU RETURNED — OR THRILLED?Well, I grew up as a dark-skinned black girl and then a black woman. I thought everyone saying “Black is Beautiful” would welcome and embrace me. But some residual elements from the past were still in play — old internalized racism — colorism.
But I also saw the movement was important, pushing against convention. Like that was the first time that there was a public acceptance of hair for example. Texture. All of that.
So, I was on my own inward journey to find my footing in a world that was not accepting of me and finding my footing within the black community as well.
HOW DOES WHAT HAPPENED IN THE BLACK MOVEMENT THEN RELATE TO NOW?I have lived through segregation, integration, affirmative action, diversity, inclusion, and equity. What does inclusion really mean? That if you behave yourself you’ll be invited into the circle. So what does behave yourself mean? When you get into the circle, you will be as invested as everyone else to maintain the status quo. And we understand that as women, and I understand that as a black person. You can be in that room and be no more than a decoration.
What I see happening now is a pushing against those boundaries.
WHAT DOES THIS PUSHING LOOK LIKE?Black generals traditionally would never speak out about what they encountered moving up through the ranks. Black executives who get into that inner sanctum — now they are beginning to speak out about the cost of being in there. A number of black friends in organizations are being asked by senior executives, “What should we do?” And they are trying to weigh the balance — can they be candid without consequences? Or are they expected to not rock the boat …
’Cause I think one of the things in our DNA — a long time ago we learned not to antagonize the person with the whip. And it takes some skill to get the person who has the whip to put it down by their side — and then to drop it to the ground.
In any interracial setting — black people are always doing that calculus. Now — people are prepared to take more risk, to be more confrontational.
WITH THE NEW GENERATION — ARE THEY THINKING ABOUT THE WHIP?Depends on the age. 80% of people over 65 are white — with Gen Z, 52% are white. 48% are not. They acknowledge the whip, and have willingness to join together. This is very different from when we were coming up.
Older white people have a posture of helping — “we’re gonna help you” — but the young white kids are putting their bodies on the line. Getting thrown out because they can’t support their parents’ racist views. White young people getting in front of black people to protect them from advancing police. It’s not “I wanna help you” — it’s “I am as invested in the outcome as you are.”
SO THIS MUST GIVE YOU HOPE …I feel optimism — but I guard my heart.
WHY ARE YOU GUARDED?There is so much work to do — and there will be cost. And casualties. Consequences. Will people have the stamina? Will white people keep going?
But hope: The size of the crowds in Portland. And the brigade of mothers and grandmothers that were coming out in droves.
I GET CHILLS …You are messing with their kids — and they’re getting pepper sprayed and tear gassed. In this moment color has been pulled off inequality — 50 million people have filed for unemployment. Since early April. 50 million people.
SO ARE YOU OUT THERE NOW? IN THE MIDDLE OF THINGS?I just had to go. I went to 3. I had my mask on. My gloves. As an older person I had to be on the edge ’cause — I’m fit enough but I can’t run like these kids do.
As a black woman, to see all of these people holding up Black Lives Matter signs — I mean you can’t — this is for me? This is for my grandson? This is …
Occasionally I would see another older black woman and we would lock eyes — it would be — can you believe that this is happening? For us? Look around …
SO IT’S NOT THE SAME FIGHT AS IT WAS IN THE 60s, IS IT?It feels … different. One of the days I saw a Black man with three teenage boys. He was pointing to things, educating them — like the vents that they put in Lafayette park covered with signs. He’s talking to these young brothers about what they are reading.
I’M LOSING IT …You go down there and it has a bit of a festive feeling — and that’s why I say — it’s no longer a sprint — it’s going to be a marathon. And then figuring out how I — what do I want to do.
AND WHAT DO YOU WANT AS AN ACTIVIST?At our age, we’re not gonna be on the front line. So what I have been thinking about and acting on is the brick I am throwing. We use bricks to tear down and we use bricks to build.
“I’d see another older black woman and we’d lock eyes — can you believe this is happening? For us?”
SO WHAT’S YOUR BRICK?I have some friends who wanted to buy a building — a black owned business. I said — let me help you figure this out. I have a network. This is my offering. Something concrete I can do from where I am sitting.
Like the orthodontist who fixed a protestor’s teeth for free after they were knocked out by a police baton.
Like white women who stand and witness when police cars pull over black people. They tell the police they’re trying to make sure people don’t get murdered.
Like the billionaire Bill Ackman who partnered with black and minority banks on a 4-billion dollar deal. Those black owned banks would not normally be into that kind of deal.
That’s the brick he threw.
So wherever you are, whatever your sphere of influencers is — you may think — this is so big. My contribution is so puny. But it isn’t.
YES. YOU CAN FEEL OVERWHELMED.Yes. Systematic racism has enforcers, enablers, vetters — all those are people. To the extent you can call out an enabler, call out an enforcer — you’re challenging them.
WE ALL NEED TO FIGURE OUT OUR BRICKS …Don’t think of systemic racism as just this amorphous thing. You may not be able to get to the Governor but you may be able to get to somebody else. Think about your sphere — your network — your abilities. You see this happening. Are you willing to be uncomfortable? Are you willing to speak out when you see something?
YOU ARE NOT FEELING DISMISSED BECAUSE OF YOUR AGE? YOU’RE FEELING VERY EMPOWERED…Oh yeah.
SO — THE PASSING OF THE BATON, ARE YOU IN THAT PHASE WHERE YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT THAT?I don’t feel like this is my time. Our time.
These young people are on the front lines. And I don’t mean to be wrestling with them for the baton. I am thinking about how can I advance things here — what is my role.
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IS YOUR LEGACY AT THIS MOMENT IN OUR LIVES?I want to get back to the conversation about inclusion. If we are inviting people to basically come in and not rock the boat — how do we address that the status quo is harmful? It is part of the barriers and the drawbridge being rolled up. It is presented — oh, diversity and inclusion are good, we got three of this and four of that and two of this. But it doesn’t matter if — when you bring people in, they cannot actually say anything different than is already there. I want to be in on that deep conversation for our future.
That’s all she wants …
Photos: Chae Kihn
SHATZI WEISBERGER, 90
Shatzi’s fierceness became crystal clear to me when I read this 90-year-old celebrated her birthday demonstrating for Black Lives Matter. Despite Covid-19 and using a wheely, she tries to make 2 demonstrations a week. And she’s no stranger to mixing it up — a nurse during the AIDS epidemic, on the front lines most of her life as a “Dyke Opposed to Nuclear Technology,” an anti-Zionist and a life-long activist fighting against redlining — nothing keeps her down. Welcome to Shatzi’s world — where age and curfews are nothing but a number.
SO YOU BROKE THE “ELDERLY” RULES — BROKE CURFEW — AND WENT OUT ON THE STREETS TO SUPPORT BLACK LIVES MATTER …That’s right. I didn’t leave the house for the first 2 weeks after the pandemic hit. My neighbors would buy me food from a list I’d give them. I’d venture out eventually, staying within the inner courtyard of my complex. After about 2 more weeks, I decided to do my own marketing. And I kept saying — I don’t want to live the rest of my life like this — but I feel like I’m stuck in it.
But when the protests started, I felt just trying to protect my own health when police were doing their killing and getting away with it was reason to take the risk. I affixed my Black Lives Matter sign to my walker, put on my PPE and wheeled out into the streets.
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE DANGERS OF COVID-19 — ESPECIALLY FOR YOUR “AGE GROUP?”As a nurse for 47 years, I know all too well we must do everything we can to curb the pandemic. I’d say 99.9% of us wear face masks at the demonstrations. And we’re outdoors which provides more protection. So I feel comfortable with that.
But I can tell you, I’m very grateful that I am not working as a nurse these days. Not to have proper protection gear?? Disgraceful …
DO YOU PARTICIPATE IN DEMONSTRATIONS SOLO, OR WITH FELLOW ACTIVISTS?Mostly, I’ve been going out alone with one exception — some friends had a car and live in lower Manhattan. And when they picked me up it was the first time I actually protested past the curfew!
OH WASN’T THAT YOUR BIRTHDAY? HAPPY BIRTHDAY!I’ve been celebrating my birthday for weeks now (laughs) — but it has been the best way to bring in my 90th!
WOULD YOU SAY YOU ARE OUT THERE A FEW TIMES A WEEK?Oh yeah. I get emails every day about various protests. So if there is something I can do in terms of location, in terms of time — I’m doing it.
DO YOU WORK WITH YOUNGER FOLKS A LOT?It’s a very young movement. Usually, I’m the only old person there. Maybe once there was an older woman in Washington Square Park — about 60. But I’m 90. (laughs)
SO HOW DOES THAT FEEL?Well, it’s not that I am not afraid of the virus. For me, the quality of my life is more important than just being alive.
For years I didn’t understand why people weren’t out in the street day every day. Organizing around racism, around homelessness and environmental issues. And now it’s happening — it’s really happening — and I just could not stay home and not be a part of it.
“I affixed my Black Lives Matter sign to my walker, put on my PPE and wheeled out into the streets.”
YOU’VE BEEN AN ACTIVIST SINCE YOUR EARLY 20s …Before that. My great grandfather was Samuel Gompers, founder of the American Federation of Labor — so it’s in my bones.
YOU WERE ACTIVE IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT IN THE ’60s — WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENCES TO BLM NOW?Today’s moment is much broader. This is all over the world. The incredible uprisings and multiracial collective actions calling to disarm, defund and disband the police are profoundly historic.
WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?Cameras!
I WANT TO BE AROUND TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT.Well, defunding the NYPD sounded hopeful — but it was a sham here in New York City. Just shuffling money. De Blasio — worthless …
Since then, the movement has enlarged to deal with homelessness, poverty. I am feeling good about this.
SO DO YOU FEEL HOPE?I was an optimist all my life — but no longer.
I feel most concerned about the environment. I suspect we have crossed the line.
Regardless, we still have to live our lives with integrity. And continue to work at building a better world.
ARE YOUNG PROTESTORS INTERESTED IN YOUR ACTIVIST PAST?Yes, Indeed. They’re learning from me. I’m learning from them. Jewish Voice for Peace just interviewed me about my life. And hundreds of people viewed it on-line.
WHAT KIND OF THINGS DO YOU DO FOR JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE?I’m doing a lot now — reaching out to new members — sharing with them how they can get involved.
SO ARE YOU READY TO PASS THE TORCH?Not yet. I’ve become quite the celebrity you know. (laughs)
Jeffrey wants it all
Photo: Chae Kihn
JEFFREY ESCOFFIER, 77
Jeffrey and I have a friend in common, the fabulist and fabulous GB Héctor Lionel. BLM is not Jeffrey’s first rodeo — he helped start the Gay Activist Alliance in the ’70s, founded the first Gay and Lesbian national magazine, and organized national gay conferences with writers like Gore Vidal, Judy Grahn, and Allen Ginsberg. You get the picture.
Is he still out there? You bet he is …
“I always considered myself an activist, and no matter how esoteric my intellectual interests are, what I want to know helps me do what is important.”
DO YOU STILL CONSIDER YOURSELF AN ACTIVIST?
I am an activist.
DOES IT FRUSTRATE YOU THAT YOU CAN’T BE PART OF THE DEMONSTRATIONS?
A little. I want my body to be counted, but I am not a participant on the streets.
But, you know, I have been in many demonstrations. In some ways, they’re ephemeral.
And — I have a different relationship to the black community now than I used to. And a different relationship to the LGBT community.
DO YOU THINK GAYS HAVE GONE TOO FAR TO IDEALIZE “HETERO-NORMALCY?”
Partly — the thing that distinguishes us is our sex lives. There is less emphasis on that nowadays. And that’s a loss.
WELL, A LITTLE JUICY BIT ASIDE BUT — YOU MENTIONED YOU ARE WRITING ABOUT SEX. THAT’S A BROAD SUBJECT. DO TELL.
One of the first books I read was Kate Millet’s Sexual Politics. And it has nothing to do with sex. It’s all about gender. Historians don’t write about sex. They don’t treat it as a serious subject. I write about sexuality a lot — and the sexual revolution. I’m interested in fucking.
ALRIGHTEY!!
WHAT ARE THE PARALLELS BETWEEN WHAT YOU HAD GONE THROUGH WITH THE LGBT AND THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT AND TODAY?
I’m feeling 2020 is approaching the sort of significance of 1969. But it’s a very different fight.
MEANING?
Let’s step back. I’ve always wanted to be a public intellectual, wanted to be a Susan Sontag. And be political too. I went to grad school at Columbia and that’s where I was in ’68 when the university closed down and the riots exploded. And In the fall of ’69 I joined a group of people starting the Gay Activist Alliance. I started a magazine. I organized a lecture series. So that’s what you are when you’re a public intellectual.
AND WE HAVEN’T EVEN GOTTEN TO SAN FRANCISCO YET …
I moved to San Francisco in 1977 — at the Golden Peak — and started the San Francisco Lesbian Gay History Project, and 30 years later it has evolved into a museum. Then I started the magazine called Out/Look — a combination of intellectual and cultural magazine for the times.
My political activities were a part of a broader range of anti-war activities, socialism, Black civil rights, always intermingled …
At some point certainly the Black civil rights movement was a model.
A MODEL FOR WHAT LGBT THE MOVEMENT COULD BE?
Definitely. The book called The Crisis of the Negro Intellectual by Harold Cruse gave me a vision that it was important to create a culture as a basis for political action. So this was my thinking behind the lecture series, starting magazines, being involved in the LGBT community in that way. I thought it was very important to create a culture in order for the politics to thrive and grow.
That’s what I have devoted my life to.
BUT — THERE WERE PARTS OF THE BLACK POWER MOVEMENT THAT WERE VERY SUCCESSFUL. AND PARTS THAT WERE NOT.
So I’d pick and choose. But there was a culture to pick and choose from.
SO — DO YOU THINK IT IS THE SAME FIGHT OVER?
No. Which is why I needed to step back. We’ve gone full circle. Whatever’s taking place now assumes what’s happened in the past. It couldn’t happen without it. Without us.
TRUE.
But it also addresses stuff that has never been fixed.
So, in some sense, it’s a continuation. And I’m very curious to see where it will go.
AND WHY NOW DO YOU THINK?
There is a kind of continuity between COVID, with its high Black mortality rate, and police violence, which also has a high Black mortality rate. It is not just an accident. These two things are coinciding, everyone has been laid off, and it’s more likely that blacks and other people of color have lost their jobs — so it seems to me that what COVID did was like an instrument that suddenly x-rayed the inequalities of American society and magnified them.
One thing, though, is very different. There’s not a kind of national leadership that we used to have in the ‘60s.
And that makes me worried that it’s going to be difficult to maintain it.
WHAT GIVES YOU HOPE?
There’s definitely a sign of hope that people are demonstrating …
But, we should have all been demonstrating more in the last four years than we did.
With Trump, I’m more scared then I have ever been..
“Historians don’t write about sex. They don’t treat it as a serious subject. I write about the sexual revolution a lot. I’m interested in fucking.”
HOW ARE YOU PARTICIPATING NOW AS AN ACTIVIST?
The epidemic has reawakened certain activist aspects of me. I was trained as an economist. It was kind of breathtaking to me when De Blasio and Cuomo shut the whole state down. And the economy stops.
SO YOU ARE WRITING ABOUT THIS …
Yes. I just finished a piece for a queer lefty journal, Pinko. And I’m connected to The Brooklyn Institute for Social Research, a left wing, adult education organization. I organize seminars.
LET’S GO THERE: IF YOU RAN THE UNIVERSE — WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE? THAT’S A BIG QUESTION BUT …
Yeah, that’s a big one. But …
There was no framework for responding to the epidemic.
There was a pandemic preparedness office but Trump closed it. I would have suggested, first of all, never make everyone quarantine. People hate it. Whatever it is, it’s an economic decision. You remember the guy with Ebola who came to New York …
A FEW YEARS AGO, YES …
He was quarantined immediately, him and his wife. The City provided them with food and supplies. They were tested every day. That’s what a quarantine involves — supporting people. Today we have this loose quarantine, people themselves have to buy the basics and food.
NO CONTROL.
It wasn’t controlled. Although you hate to do it, it’s better sooner than later to quarantine — with support.
They made the quarantine decision because they were panicked — and it’s a bigger economic decision — as well as public health decision — than they ever realized.
DO YOU HAVE A FEELING OF INVISIBILITY — OF NOT BEING HEARD — AS A RESULT OF NOT BEING OUT AS MUCH?
Not at all. I am being read. I am being seen. In fact, I have a lot of younger friends and many of them have basically been nagging because I have so very little sense of being at risk. I’d go out and they wouldn’t leave their house at all — ordered everything online. I just couldn’t do that.
SO YOU’D GO OUT AND WHEN IT GOT TOO CRAZY, YOU LEFT.
Well, that’s generally my approach. (laughs)
DO YOU FEEL READY TO PASS ON THE TORCH?
That’s a complicated question. But, I’m not sure it’s up to me to pass the torch. In fact, younger folks have already started carrying the torch on their own — for the left, racial equality and for LGBTQ.
YOU CONTINUE TO BE AN ACTIVIST INTELLECTUAL — THAT IS YOUR LEGACY …
I always considered myself an activist. And no matter how esoteric my intellectual interests are, what I want to know helps me do what is important.
And right now, I’m writing.
SO YOU WORK WELL, LIVE WELL, WITH YOUNGER GENERATIONS…
Most of my friends are younger.
It has only been this last year that I have developed a new circle of friends, all people in their 70s.
I’m very happy. I’m a proud septuagenarian. And I’m trying to figure out why do I feel like this is interesting — and maybe important.
OH, I’D LOVE TO HEAR THIS.
It’s not the personal biography. But it’s the fact that we have lived through history.
YES.
And at this point, without always realizing it, we’re still processing that history. That’s one of the things that we’ve chosen because of our historical experience … not so much because I’m 70 and healthy and so on, but because I’ve lived through this unique history. It’s really about being ravished by history.
YES. RAVISHED BY HISTORY. I FEEL THAT PHRASE.
That’s what’s important about us being older, what we lived through, and how are we using that now…
Before I sat down with these firebrands, I thought their stories would be full of dis-empowerment — frustrated that they cannot be heard in the media, in the world. Feeling invisible.
No.
These are stories of power.
And concern.
The elections are coming. And. Black Lives Matter is too important to sputter. We ALL have to pick our bricks to throw or build, to ensure this movement is not just a “that was so 2020” moment. I’ll take my cue from Elizabeth — hopeful but guarded …